What is the future of an art career? Where do you look to find relevant new culture? And as an artist, where do you find collaborators and fans  in art as in so much else? A lot has changed in the last decade, and the answers to all of these important questions feel tenuous and up for grabs.

On the one hand, traditional art institutions seem both dominated by wealth and starved for resources. On the other, there’s an explosion of Internet culture full of subcultural energy, but also terrible incentives with a race-to-the-bottom quest for attention that hardly seems ideal for supporting art. The artist Joshua Citarella is someone who’s been thinking hard about these problems, and above all, about how to steer a course in between these different, often competing worlds.

His artwork has been exhibited in illustrious places including Berlin’s KW Institute for Temporary Art in its recent “Poetics of Encryption” show, which attracted a lot of buzz, but he’s also been cited as an authority on the ideologies and aesthetics of Internet subcultures by the New York Times, the Guardian, and many other outlets.

This week, Citarella joins Artnet’s Ben Davis to talk about his position as a figure in a new hybrid type of internet era, moving between art maker, podcaster, micro influencer, and community manager of the heady online platform Do Not Research, and theorizing how all these strands fit together. On the podcast, the two discuss the evolving demands on artists in the digital era, the changing art audience, and a lot more.